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Some theme structural changes coming in RC3

Posted by onokazu on 2003/3/1 14:04:35 (9503 reads) | Posted on Developer News
There has been a change in handling of theme files in RC3 (which is about to be released in the next few days), as well as several modifications to the naming conventions.

The skin files will no longer be included in a themeset, but managed separately as theme files under the themes directory as we did in XOOPS 1.x. Only the module template files are included in a themeset, thus we will rename theme sets as template sets from RC3.

Why this change?

The development of theme files has become too complicated, or requires overly much work with template and skin files combined. In addition, storing them into DB made hard for the files to be modified on a frequent basis. We also have noticed that skin files are touched more often by the site administrators than are the template files. By completely separating them apart to template and theme sets, we hope that it would not only facilitate the development of theme files for XOOP2, but also make the site administration and management much easier.

Please continue reading for details..

Structural changes


[u]XOOPS2 RC1-RC2[/u]                               [u]XOOPS2 RC3[/u]

skin.html (requiredin DB)               -> theme.html (requiredstored under themes/)
skin_blockcenter_c.html (optionalin DB) -> theme_blockcenter_c.html (optionalunder themes/)
skin_blockcenter_l.html (optionalin DB) -> theme_blockcenter_l.html (optionalunder themes/)
skin_blockcenter_r.html (optionalin DB) -> theme_blockcenter_r.html (optionalunder themes/)
skin_blockleft.html (optionalin DB)     -> theme_blockleft.html (optionalunder themes/)
skin_blockright.html (optionalin DB)    -> theme_blockright.html (optionalunder themes/)

image files (optionalin DB)             -> image files (optionalunder themes/)

module template files (optionalin DB)   -> module template files (optionalin DB)


How to convert your XOOPS2 themes to work in RC3

1. Before uploading anything to your server, go to Themeset Manager and download a themeset tarball for your theme. It is VERY important that you do this before anything else, since skin(theme) files are no longer managed through Themeset Manager in RC3 and thus you won't be able to download them after the upgrade.

2. Extract the tarball, rename the skin files as listed above.

3. Open skin.html with your text editor, and modify the following parts (if any):


<{include file="db:skin_blockleft.html"}>
<{include 
file="db:skin_blockright.html"}>
<{include 
file="db:skin_blockcenter_c.html"}>
<{include 
file="db:skin_blockcenter_l.html"}>
<{include 
file="db:skin_blockcenter_r.html"}>


to


<{include file="your_theme_name/theme_blockleft.html"}>
<{include 
file="your_theme_name/theme_blockright.html"}>
<{include 
file="your_theme_name/theme_blockcenter_c.html"}>
<{include 
file="your_theme_name/theme_blockcenter_l.html"}>
<{include 
file="your_theme_name/theme_blockcenter_r.html"}>


Of course, don't forget to replace your_theme_name with the actual theme name.

4. Upload the skin(theme) files (not template files) to the themes directory on your server. All .html/.css/image files should be placed directly under /themes/your_theme_name/.

That's all, and you should have an option to select your theme in the preferences after upgrading to RC3.


Smarty tag name changes

Some of the Smarty template tags will be renamed as well to conform with the XOOPS naming conventions.


<{$meta_xxx}>   ->  <{$xoops_meta_xxx}>
<{
$footer}>     ->  <{$xoops_footer}>


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The comments are owned by the poster. We aren't responsible for their content.

So if I understand this correctly, in RC3 to upload a theme will require FTP skin files to /themes folder AND uploading template files via theme (template) manager? Or will there be a more simplified method?
Posted: 2003/3/1 17:29 • Updated: 2003/3/1 17:29
I really like the fact that I could edit my skins with the themeset manager in RC2. Sounds like this will no longer be the case ;(
Posted: 2003/3/2 1:46 • Updated: 2003/3/2 1:46
Yes, theme files need to be FTP'd to the themes directory and template files are uploaded via Template Manager.
Posted: 2003/3/2 3:57 • Updated: 2003/3/2 3:57
Can't you add the upload of theme files to an uploader page or something? Now I can edit my files anywhere, without having FTP access...

Herko
Posted: 2003/3/2 6:37 • Updated: 2003/3/2 6:37
I have no problems using the current theme manager implementation but, I believe the concensus is that the average user is having a hard time getting their head around this marvelous piece of work.

It's light years ahead of the other CMS's (including ezPublisher) but, it maybe to far ahead of it's time.
Posted: 2003/3/2 10:51 • Updated: 2003/3/2 10:51
Yes, I liked the idea of not needing FTP... one less thing to teach the users I end up supporting.

However, I can understand the desire to keep things simple for the majority of users.

As you suggest Herko, perhaps down the road, a file uploader module or simply an interface to edit skin files from the Administration menu will arrive.

But, for me it is a "nice to have" not a "must have."

To me (still trying to figure this out), it seems the major change is moving the theme code out of the database and back into files. It seems like what is in that code has not changed much. This does allow a person to develop a theme independently of the templates. Maybe that's the big advantage.

But, if that makes it easier for theme developers to understand, then so be it.

Perhaps it makes it easier for theme developers to update their 1.3.x theme to Xoops 2. If that's the case, than that's an advantage, as well.
Posted: 2003/3/2 12:25 • Updated: 2003/3/2 13:01
Hoho!!most of people pay for bendwidth,I dont think any bad to use FTP access.. also I agree to ONO to change some operation for X2..this is great news for me...

Boobtoob
your reply made our Marketing Menagment people to laugh themself into convulsion,you mean X2 must promote something changed because it is quite ahead of other CMS (Manbo/EZP/etc..)..Thank you,we already found the good answer to explain to our customers "Why we just changed the product's features after complaint?"..
Posted: 2003/3/2 12:56 • Updated: 2003/3/2 13:01
Notake,
In Xoops2 RC2, if you want to edit your files on your local to save bandwidth... you could always downloand the tarball, make the changes, and upload when finished.

Oh, maybe what you mean is, now you don't have to upload all the untouched module template files when all you really want to edit is the skin.html/theme.html

I think I understand. Or, maybe I'm still confused.
Posted: 2003/3/2 13:07 • Updated: 2003/3/2 13:07
Quote:
Boobtoob
your reply made our Marketing Menagment people to laugh themself into convulsion,you mean X2 must promote something changed because it is quite ahead of other CMS (Manbo/EZP/etc..)..Thank you,we already found the good answer to explain to our customers "Why we just changed the product's features after complaint?"..


I'm glad I could give your people a laugh with my comment being taken out of context. My statement was that the THEME manager is light years ahead of Ezpublish and others. They still kick our butts in other areas such as shopping cart, layout, etc. even though most of them are a bitch to install and maintain. Sometimes it's hard to have your cake and eat it to.

Cheers
Posted: 2003/3/2 13:16 • Updated: 2003/3/2 13:18
HAHA..great.. I work with Visul Hosting provider,as a reseller,If my customers waving bendwidth and pay for extra bendwidth for this,one thing I can sure,I am really happier than any one but,customer will not..

Btw,Xoops is great,but as a dev Team like you are,humble is best policy for business..
Posted: 2003/3/2 13:42 • Updated: 2003/3/2 13:42
It might be a language problem (as a german, my english isn't all that good), but I really don't understand what uploading a theme through ftp instead of through the theme manager has to do with bandwidth?
Posted: 2003/3/2 17:32 • Updated: 2003/3/2 17:32
If you want anywhere FTP acess try Web2ftp (http://www.web2ftp.com/). Free access to any FTP account over the web.

--L4ou (The "4" is silent)

P.S. No, I don't work for them, or own stock, or anything....just found a useful site I thought I'd share
Posted: 2003/3/2 21:38 • Updated: 2003/3/3 12:07
Can this be made optional?
All in the DB is great for trying to run multi-sites from the same code base.

daniel
Posted: 2003/3/3 10:00 • Updated: 2003/3/5 19:11
FWIW this is great news to me, I am just trying to apply my site's theme and was about to give up on Xoops until I saw this news. Textareas are NFG for editing code - in the theme manager you cant:
- search or replace text
- color highlight
- search multiple files
- make a change and just hit reload to see it
- see more than 10? lines at once
- deal with indenting

its WAY too frustrating. I have been using Smarty for a year on other stuff and am looking forward to editing templates in VIM
Posted: 2003/3/3 12:41 • Updated: 2003/3/3 12:41
The text boxes are good for quick tweaks. They were never intended to use for developnig the site ROFL. Hence the real-time setting in admin.
Posted: 2003/3/3 16:46 • Updated: 2003/3/3 16:46
I love the current system, and would be sad to see it go.

I simply copy the CSS-code into TopStyle, and using my saved frontpage I make changes and see them immediately. Then I copy it back into the thememanager, and get the look I want.

I surely hope that the files will be as accessible as they are now :)
Posted: 2003/3/3 16:49 • Updated: 2003/3/3 16:49
Sbeam,
Would it work for you to download your theme tarball... make your edits in VIM or editor of your choice with all the benefits you mention...
and then upload your tarball back up?

Is having to deal with tarballs making it difficult for people?

In any event, editing files locally and then uploading is possible under both scenarios...

Unless I'm misunderstanding, which is always, always possible.
Posted: 2003/3/3 17:50 • Updated: 2003/3/3 18:36
how about releasing both?
Xoops Lite & Xoops Pro or something?
I don't know how much extra work this would mean for the devs so please don't bite my head of if this suggestion is not realistic
Posted: 2003/3/3 19:39 • Updated: 2003/3/3 19:39
LOL..how about "standard & option" or "user and programmer"? lol..X2 is quite different from X1.3,some PPL like new ver but some didnt,how can I say?I dont have any idea.just an FREE G.P.L user..

and,where are the old face of MODS/Themes supporter of 1.3???? disappear?
Posted: 2003/3/3 20:11 • Updated: 2003/3/3 20:11
Sunsnapper: "Is having to deal with tarballs making it difficult for people?"

I've gotta tell you, I do most work via Windows and as such haven't really ever dealt with tar.gz's beyond unzipping, etc. I probably should, but as I said, I haven't. Any chance you could throw just .zip functionality on there, if the zip contained folder info?
Posted: 2003/3/3 21:09 • Updated: 2003/3/3 21:09
hmm.... i think i have no worry because i trust ono and xoops deve team. I find that they are willing to accept our suggestions and do believe xoops will be better and better. Therefore, i am looking forward rc3 now. Of course, they can't fullfil ALL our suggestions because of the limitation of time and resource. But they are willing to listen our voices.
Posted: 2003/3/3 22:47 • Updated: 2003/3/3 22:47
In my humble opinion ..theme manager was feature which made X2 outstanding CMS - therefore I choosed it.
This tool, after some developments, should make work over templates significantly easier for people like me. After such changes will not be big differences (for me) between X2 and PostNuke or PHPNuke...
F. Burzi wrote that one of most important news in PHPNUKE will be Theme Manager, which You get rid of.
Shade
Posted: 2003/3/4 10:15 • Updated: 2003/3/4 10:15
well I am not aware of all the history and time and effort you guys invested in it, I can appreciate that - I just started using xoops yesterday

but when you are running your dev server on your laptop, like me with templates on the filesystem, I can -
-- edit template
-- hit reload
-- repeat
and if the system was on an FTP only server,then there is just the added step 'hit send in [S]FTP'

with theme manager, there is all the, hit Browse.. ., find file, hit Submit, go to other page, etc. So zipping/tarring only adds more work! I dont know about you I don't do things right very often without a lot of this trial and error

but I can see if you had clueless users who couldn't FTP their way out of a paper bag maybe you want both - maybe in the future it will be an option

PS - version control of templates - I use CVS on all my projects, you cant get DB contents into CVS!
Posted: 2003/3/4 12:45 • Updated: 2003/3/4 12:45
Just thought I'd pop on and congratulate the developers on a great decision. Thank you! While I'm a big fan of GUI's where they are applicable, I'm also a guy who sits around in xemacs all day and can't give up the wonderful world of "cvs commit".

In My Humble Opinion, editing low-level CSS / HTML is not something I want to do in more than a minimal GUI(i.e. xemacs). I'm tired of copy'n'pasting text between my editor-of-choice and the Theme Manager...

As for those of you who are big GUI fans, I present to you NOTEPAD.EXE. It does work, looks very much like an HTML textbox, and has a mere 6 options so it's not too confusing... ;-P
Posted: 2003/3/5 13:42 • Updated: 2003/3/5 13:42
bump: too see if I can get some feedback

daniel
Posted: 2003/3/5 19:13 • Updated: 2003/3/5 19:13
Light years ahead? Good.

What do you want to be? A CMS that copies other CMS's out there? or one that sets the tone, that pushes the envelope?

I vote for the second option. It's not that difficult to understand, by the way, that you can edit templates on a web based interface, and quickly / easily affect the looks of the site, without mucking around with ftp software.

I actually think it's much friendlier than letting a user use some ftp software. Don't forget many of us host on sites that no longer allow standard FTP. All of our unix machines only allow for Secure FTP Access! This means people have to use some ftp clients that are not as friendly as what they were used to.

For Xoops 1.3.8 we have written a system that completely replaces the built-in theme system. It also makes use of the wysiwyg editor, and is VERY nice to use. This combined with an image uploader, is a dream for any site owner!

For those who say that they want to edit it with their favorite 'code' editor, guys, this is only a skin... you aren't doing any serious coding here.

You can see a site that uses our system here: xoops.doula.co.il

The skin you see on that site was done entirely without touching an ftp software. all web based, and all wysiwyg.

And by the way, last i checked, Xoops.org is not some company selling the product to end users. Your best 'customers' are tech people like myself. We need power, and more features, and not the opposite. Give us the power.

I don't want to have to port my template system to Xoops 2.0, specially since in RC2 the template system showed much promise of being exactly what we need, to make sites really look the way we want them to look...

Hopeful,

Skaag / Xoops.org.il
Posted: 2003/3/6 9:17 • Updated: 2003/3/6 10:30
sbeam, why don't you download the theme over, edit it, and upload it back?

And if what you want is real-time feedback to your changes, maybe what we could do is make a 'pack / unpack' theme, which would export a theme from the db to the filesystem. You then select that theme, make changes until you are happy with them. Then you can ask xoops to repack the theme into the db, and then, you can modify it on the web which is great if you need to do some quick change.

Skaag
Posted: 2003/3/6 9:20 • Updated: 2003/3/6 9:20
Can anyone define what 'next few days' means as used in a sentence like: 'which is about to be released in the next few days'? My english is only so-so. Does it mean 2-3, 5-6, 10-15?

Thank you.
Posted: 2003/3/6 11:22 • Updated: 2003/3/6 11:22
A comment on the proposed change: The new way will make it more likely that there will be a problem with creating a new theme based on the old one. You might consider changing the portion that is:

Quote:
<{include file="your_theme_name/theme_blockleft.html"}>
...


into something like this:

Quote:
<{include file="{$xoops_theme}/theme_blockleft.html"}>
...


That way when a theme is renamed or based on another it is much less likely that it will be broken / misdirected.

I'll skip the seemingly obligatory comments on "it's good change" or "it's bad change". It's all good!

I really like the way X2 is shaping up. Great job, guys!
Posted: 2003/3/6 16:22 • Updated: 2003/3/6 16:22
Quote:
Does it mean 2-3, 5-6, 10-15?


Yes. Or sooner, or longer. Very non-specific, and purposely so. The XOOPS team releases very high quality code written and tested in their spare time--so it takes time. Just search for postings regarding the initial V2 release for plenty of excited discussion around what "soon" means, and why "soon" seems to take so long. Worst case, it will give you something to do while you wait for RC3
Posted: 2003/3/6 16:31 • Updated: 2003/3/6 16:31
I welcome any changes that make theme development easier, as long as somewhere you still have total control of the code.

I don't understand the whole need for all the file transfers though, maybe I am missing something as I'm not really an experienced web developer at all, but I find it easy to use for the most part. I just copy and paste the code into notepad from the theme html manager, make the changes I want by simply hacking the existing variables, paste it back into one of the three browser specific css sheets and test it in that browser.

For graphics I open the images control panel for the theme, drag and drop the images to an open graphics editor window en masse, edit and save them, then reupload them through the theme manager from my HD without even closing the web window. Once the theme is tight I'll paste it over the CSS of the other two sheets and voila! Done.

It may not be the best way, but it's easy and only requires a free PSP demo, a browser, and just enough html and css knowledge to hack your way through the changes you want.

The problems I run into are easily identifying the specific tags for each of the visible page elements that I want to change in all the code. Someof that is due to my weak knowledge of CSS, but I still spend most of my time searching and cross referencing the code to discover what controls the color of the link button backgrounds on top of the header in xt2 for example. Anything to simply the identification of every visible page element referenced in the code to a relative newbie like me would be a great help.
Posted: 2003/3/8 1:51 • Updated: 2003/3/8 2:06
I would also prefer it if both routes where open, the online editor for quick, little changes (Like when you're on someones computer and notice that a table is slightly off) and ftp for bigger stuff.
Posted: 2003/3/8 3:49 • Updated: 2003/3/8 3:49
I Agree The Basic Editing of The CSS files has been the easiest way for me. But I have 2 different routes to editing #1 being able to grab files from My Root Directory and Pulling them Straight To My Desktop and Putting Them Into my editor and make my changes, Save them and Refresh the Root Directory. Then I test it, and Work in the Background. My #2 Option is To Edit it Right in FTP Program.
Although Im still a Newbie at this as well this has been working for me pretty well.
Posted: 2003/3/9 2:44 • Updated: 2003/3/9 2:44
I was lost, now I can see the light.

I'm glad theme is now back to its physical folder.

bravo! no more messing with tar zip blah blah
Posted: 2003/3/9 6:44 • Updated: 2003/3/9 6:44
yes,theme back to its physical folder is right hand, most of host provider does limit the MY-SQL connection to 25~50 at the time,(max 101)..put the theme into DB is not a good idea,also,on line theme design/upload/etc. is not the stantard process.. FTP does.

good changed..
Posted: 2003/3/9 8:59 • Updated: 2003/3/9 8:59
ric
There has been some discussions here before, but I still don't understand it. Maybe someone can convince me.
I found the themesetmanager great for creating a new theme for my site. It allows me to work on it on every computer with a internet connection. At home, at school, at work, in an internetcafe, everywhere! Depreciating the themesetmanager would result in ftp-ing files. The problem is: not every internet-computer has a ftp-client installed. And I really don't want to use internet explorer for ftp.
Beside that, (maybe this is even more important) when you are on a different computer you must first download the theme files to edit them. Editing my theme would result in a version stored locally at home, at school, at work, etc. With the themesetmanager I had instant acces to the latest files. No version conflicts!

So what is more user friendly:
-ftp
-themesetmanager

I vote for the themesetmanager. I really hope it won't be depreciated in RC3.

BTW:
Another discussion would be not to store the themefiles in the database anymore. That would enable -in my eyes- both possibilities; ftp and themesetmanager. But PLEASE keep the possibility to edit all the theme files in my browser. It was great! Please????
Posted: 2003/3/10 4:56 • Updated: 2003/3/10 4:56
AND:

another reason why I liked the themesetmanager so much:

it allows all admin users to edit the theme.
When using ftp I must give all my admins ftp acces to modify the theme. I don't want that. They are allowed to change the theme, but I don't want them to log in to my account using ftp.
The themesetmanager is just great. It belongs to a good content management system.
Posted: 2003/3/10 5:06 • Updated: 2003/3/10 5:06
For now, we will be moving only the theme files to the themes directory. Template files will stay where they were (in DB) and will be editable through the web interface.

Having both features as an option is an idea, but there is additional risk of creating inconsistencies between file data in DB and the physical files under the themes directory.
Posted: 2003/3/10 10:01 • Updated: 2003/3/10 10:01
Isn't it possible to store the theme files as a file, but make them editable in a browser window like thememanager does it now?
With that solution, all the users will be happy. Users can modify the theme files and the template files in a browser window. But the theme files also can be edited using ftp.

I don't know if this is possible, or if there are any security risks. I hope this idea will be considered before releasing rc3.
Thanks.
Posted: 2003/3/10 13:29 • Updated: 2003/3/10 13:29
Why ppl edit files by FTP's editor?? I used Cute-FTP uploaded files only.(even cute-FTP support editor).

Any upload process by Browser cause secure hole and,If you upload files anywhere,of course your site become very much dangerous,(this is nothing else to go with which process your choice,FTP or Browser),not to mention the Theme-mangment,not only the group permissions but,it is a site admin managment issue..

edit your layout/theme with tooling of editor..then upload your layout/theme with FTP (into your theme folder)....

make theme editable on-line by browser will NOT be happy to me.(especially, the only way to process make me unhappy)..this is mainly what I am worry about..security.
Posted: 2003/3/10 15:58 • Updated: 2003/3/11 5:44
Yes, I am a newbie ... but IMHO the oldest CSS/template editing system was quite nice and useful.
I know that maintain a double publishing method (web & FTP) can be a problem but if is possible to vote I will vote for both of them.
Posted: 2003/3/19 17:25 • Updated: 2003/3/19 17:25
If I've already upload and installed SpringTime without making these changes, how do I proceed?

Thanks,
Derek
Posted: 2003/3/20 12:11 • Updated: 2003/3/20 12:11
you can apply this modifications offline (locally) and then delete the remote folder and upload it again...
this should work...
Posted: 2003/3/21 17:53 • Updated: 2003/3/21 17:53