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Posted by skalpa on 2005/9/27 11:40:00 (28161 reads) | Posted on XOOPS

Here is the expected annoucement from the development team, describing the forthcoming changes in our organization, and what you will be able to see in the next weeks.

I must begin this text with apologies. When some among us met last spring at the time of the FOSDEM, I announced a lot of changes, I was full of projects. A little later the roadmap for XOOPS 4 was published, and then nothing: I completely disappeared during several months.
It is true that this absence was as involuntary as unforeseen, and due to huge problems met in my real life... nevertheless that does not change anything for the people who are present here, and while returning at the end of August I could only note the consequences of this absence. While disappearing like that, I left this project development without leader, without global vision, and it is not just a programmer who missed. Some people tried to mitigate this lack, but without direction to follow nor real experiment, their task was found very hard, almost impossible. So, again I make a point of excusing myself. First to the people who tried to contribute to this project during this time to have left them, then to all the users who found themselves without interlocutor, without official position nor clear response to some their interrogations. Thank you for your assistance, for your patience or your support: the problems of these latest months will be soon forgotten, it is a promise I make personally.

To explain in detail all that will occur in the next weeks or months would take too many pages, thus I will try to synthesize as much as possible today. The principal idea which is at the origin of the majority of the changes that you will soon see is the same one, but we will apply it to our program, to the way we work, at every possible level. To define in a few words what it consists was already made by another architect called Hans Reiser (the programmer who created ReiserFS) so I will only quote here his "Reiser's law of information economics":
The expressive power of an information system is proportional not to the number of objects that get implemented for it, but instead is proportional to the number of possible effective interactions between objects in it.

In normal language what does that mean ? That to communicate is more important than to act (in latine, communicare that is to say comm-unicare: how to give the one to the multiple, to the with (to share), or also what allows this with to give birth to the one). That the potential lies in the interfaces, the relations, in the protocols, and that these are the points we will focus on at first.

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The comments are owned by the author. We aren't responsible for their content.

Great!!!!
This is what we need... A REAL LEADER.
Thanks for giving a clear light.

Published: 2005/9/27 12:16 • Updated: 2005/9/27 12:16

Kumar

Welcome back Scalpa!

Published: 2005/9/27 12:23 • Updated: 2005/9/27 12:23

kaotik

Woohooo! If I physically could do a backflip right now, I would!

Now THIS is what open communication is all about!

Thank you Skalpa and the Core Team for coming together as a unified body to further the development of this great application we call XOOPS!

Today truly is a new day for XOOPS, in so many ways.

Happy XOOPS'ing all!

Published: 2005/9/27 13:46 • Updated: 2005/9/27 13:46

JMorris

Thank-you Skalpa for that statement. All this points the way to eciting and positive developments. I trust many will back these proposals and support this vison to thrust XOOPS into a successful future.

Published: 2005/9/27 13:47 • Updated: 2005/9/27 13:47

carnuke

Thanks for this post.
A team, communication, clear roadmap, web standards, vision ?

Very good news !

Published: 2005/9/27 14:47 • Updated: 2005/9/27 14:47

pemen

Thanks for update and your great efforts.
In life nothing is guaranteed, hope XOOPS moves on
with good global audiance/usage and positive feedback. Avoid 'Mambo-pitfall' when impact and exposure increases !

Published: 2005/9/27 16:16 • Updated: 2005/9/27 16:16

hannes

Thanks for standing up in front of the critics and taking the stand. Hopefully XOOPS will continue to move forward.

Now those of us that have installed 2.2.x version of xoops. What do you want us to do, downgrade to 2.0.x or keep 2.2.x running, I was a bit confused.

Published: 2005/9/27 16:41 • Updated: 2005/9/27 16:41

silvrhand

Perfect explaination Skalpa. Hope your live goes the way you want it now and I'm glad you and the core team are really working as a team.

Good luck to all, i'm curious for the next release!

Published: 2005/9/27 16:43 • Updated: 2005/9/27 16:43

Reintjan

Good read, looking forward to a workable multi lingual version. Enhancements to theming sounds promising.

Grt, Mark

Published: 2005/9/27 16:54 • Updated: 2005/9/27 16:54

markwiseman

Great news!! Cheers!

Published: 2005/9/27 17:05 • Updated: 2005/9/27 17:05

FusionKid

when you speak of being compliant to xhtml standards and the use and difference between class and id.

As a webdesigner this is one of the key things that i noticed when designing themes for xoops. It seems that most coders are not aware of the fact that a specific id can only be used once per page where as a class can be used as many times as you like. I see this repeated in many modules as well...

Is this what you are reffering to fixing in this statement?

Quote:

or not take care of the difference between a class or an id.

Published: 2005/9/27 19:11 • Updated: 2005/9/27 19:11

xpider

Thank´s to you skalpa and to the entire core team.

I will translate your statement for the hispanic part of Xoops-Worldwide.

Published: 2005/9/27 20:52 • Updated: 2005/9/27 20:52

menochi

I've been quite concerned at the lack of "energy" in our community lately. Not anymore.

Thank you for your words, I am excited once again at our future.

Published: 2005/9/27 21:13 • Updated: 2005/9/27 21:13

Kainaij

This is great! I'm very happy that XOOPS is now in the right hands with a clear direction and a great dev team.

Published: 2005/9/27 22:30 • Updated: 2005/9/27 22:30

StarShaper

Coming from someone who can learn just enough of something to be dangerous, it's great to see leadership from the people who know we're out there to support them. Much of the stuff that's talked about here is technically above my head, but I know enough to know that you know how to take this platform to the next level.

Thanks for your commitment, and I look forward to future releases from the core team and modules from those independent, enthusiastic XOOPSers out there!

-Anthony

Published: 2005/9/27 22:34 • Updated: 2005/9/27 22:34

ocaptain2

Wonderful News. Thanks Guys.

don (el paso)

Published: 2005/9/27 23:37 • Updated: 2005/9/27 23:37

Jharis

Some months ago when you published the roadmap of XOOPS 4 and XOOPS 2.2 I was so excited! Then the things with XOOPS Core went not so well.. but now all of my doubts have been disappeard.

Now it is important that also the other teams of XOOPS.org, the community and the official support sites support you at best in order to give new lymph to XOOPS.

Thank you Skalpa for coming back and I wish you good work!

Published: 2005/9/28 0:51 • Updated: 2005/9/28 0:51

blueangel

Thanks for your words skalpa... welcome back!

Happy Xoopsing all

Published: 2005/9/28 1:12 • Updated: 2005/9/28 1:12

smdcom

Glad to read such announcement !

Published: 2005/9/28 2:29 • Updated: 2005/9/28 2:29

hervet

If Skalpa is the new project leader, what happend with Mithrandir ? 2.0.13.1 is an exellent release.

Also, no matter what will be X 2.3 and 2.4, no one says why multi language support is not a part of XOOPS development, to be an Ultimate Portal System, every CMS have to provide quality Multi Language support, such as Xaraya for example, the real one CMS with true multi language capabilities. Unfortunately Xaraya is very havy at the moment 1.0.0RC3, so I have to use Marc Andre SmartLanguage patch to provide at least News Articles in more than one language.

Published: 2005/9/28 4:13 • Updated: 2005/9/28 4:13

DCrussader

I would imagine that full multi-language support (especially multi-byte characters such as Chinese and Japanese) will have to be incorporated into a low-level to work across XOOPS as a whole.

I'm sure this will come in the next major releases - if not this one.

At present at least theres SmartLanguage and XLanguage - which do a very good job.

Published: 2005/9/28 4:26 • Updated: 2005/9/28 4:26

davidl2

Quote:

If Skalpa is the new project leader, what happend with Mithrandir

Errr... it's not like I'm gone or anything (although that seems to be what have been in the past - one takes over, the other disappears)

Skalpa has been working on the experimentational and architectural development of XOOPS 4 while I have been working on 2.2

Seeing as 2.2 was a bigger task than I could handle alone with phppp, Skalpa (as Core development team leader) has re-evaluated the strategy and planned a closer working on 2.3/2.4 as he describes here, implementing some of the things, he has made for XOOPS 4.

Quote:

no one says why multi language support is not a part of XOOPS development

I don't know how you can read that multi language support is not part of the development. It is clearly written to be part of 2.5/2.6 development, but since it is a quite large task and important to get right (or do you disagree? If you have the magic key to get this done right and well, join in the development) it is not just something to throw into the code - it will take some time, planning and experimentation.

Published: 2005/9/28 4:38 • Updated: 2005/9/28 4:38

Mithrandir

On page 3 of this announcement:Quote:

A few objectives:
- Low-level refactoring
A lot of work will be done to refactor the kernel and its boot sequence. Here we'll have several objectives. The first will be to clean up this part of the core, and obtain something highly structured to allow further, distributed development of the classes it will contain. It will allow us to add a few functionalities before 2.4.0 is reached (enhanced session and auth, the possibility to use several boot files, real https awareness...). Last, this necessary step will allow us to bring some highly requested features to the core in a next (2.5./2.6) version, like the possibility to manage several XOOPS sites from a single install, or real multi-language functionnalities.

(emphasis added)

Skalpa is the Core Dev leader, Mithrandir is one of the core developers. It's a team

And 2.0.13.1 is such an excellent release because it has 2 years of bugfixes and patches to become this stable

That's why it will be used as codebase for the next development.

As for multilanguage features, this is something the core developers take very seriously. Thuat's why it will be done right. The Multilang/SMartlang hacks are good and practical, but (mis)uses the textsanitiser to store all translations in one field. The way it should be done when done right, and the core will need heavy modification at the architecture level because of that, is to make each translated item a separate object (so you can choose how to use that translated content). That's not something you can easily hack into the system.

I hope this clarifies the questions you may have

Herko

Published: 2005/9/28 4:43 • Updated: 2005/9/28 4:43

Herko

Well, thanks to all for your support

@silvrhand: We don't want you to do anything special. As I said, the downgrade script is being done for people who need it... but if you have a 2.2.x site and are happy with it, keep it (this branch won't be unsupported and upgrades from 2.2 to 2.4 will be released)
@dccrusader: Herko and Mith's answers have said it, nothing to add

@davidl2: You're mistaking... Multi-language and multi-byte encodings support are not the same thing. MB support is in fact a high level priority, but our problem is that you-know-who was never a team player and never told us what was wrong about this and where... just "it's not good!"

You'll hear about this again when we're ready, as we may want to form a special working/testing group to ensure we get a real MB support (which means also out-of-the-box RTL support and not just asian languages but arabic, cyrillic, hebrew...).

skalpa.>

Published: 2005/9/28 5:41 • Updated: 2005/9/28 5:42

skalpa

Quote:

@davidl2: You're mistaking... Multi-language and multi-byte encodings support are not the same thing.

Doh! I am silly

But you know what I mean though

Published: 2005/9/28 5:55 • Updated: 2005/9/28 5:55

davidl2

I remember what you said, the way you insulted many of us that left this project!

Now you're back with a new strategy, assuming past mistakes - Well, great ! We'll see.

You want to improve communication - that's great too! Just after recognizing and apologized...

After all... time is showing us you were wrong!

As i make an effort to speak english, do it now if you wanto to understand french:

- Tu as appris que dans la vie tout a un prix. Alors ne l'oublie pas. Les regrets ne servent à rien. Souviens toi seulement des leçons. Mieux vaut être responsable pour vivre mieux!

Published: 2005/9/28 5:56 • Updated: 2005/9/28 5:56

damaster

Quote:

I remember what you said, the way you insulted many of us that left this project!

??? Could you please indicate me where I insulted people who left (and many of them ??)
Quote:

Now you're back with a new strategy, assuming past mistakes

?? my strategy has always been the same. But as I said I had problems that kept me away, and couldn't apply it.
Quote:

time is showing us you were wrong

Again: I was not here ! How could I be wrong ?

Quote:

As i make an effort to speak english, do it now if you wanto to understand french:

Ca va merci... j'ai pas besoin de toi pour ça. Par contre t'as l'air d'avoir de sérieux problêmes pour comprendre l'anglais. Tu veux la version française du texte (c'est dispo) ?

skalpa.>

Published: 2005/9/28 6:11 • Updated: 2005/9/28 6:11

skalpa

@Mith: If you have the magic key to get this done right and well, join in the development) it is not just something to throw into the code - it will take some time, planning and experimentation.

Hmmm, it's very interesting how non-php dev will help making XOOPS true multi lingual CMS.

@Skapla: You'll hear about this again when we're ready, as we may want to form a special working/testing group to ensure we get a real MB support (which means also out-of-the-box RTL support and not just asian languages but arabic, cyrillic, hebrew...).

And what have to be done, to make availabe on one site - English, Hebrew and Cyrillic, to be readable thru the web browser, and to work fine RSS syndication, not like www.pzcci.org/backend.php or www.xoopsbg.org/backend.php

Thanks in advance

Published: 2005/9/28 9:34 • Updated: 2005/9/28 9:34

DCrussader

Quote:

(which means also out-of-the-box RTL support and not just asian languages but arabic, cyrillic, hebrew...)

Glad to hear that one

I'll be happy to assist with the Hebrew side...
Good to know the vision goes beyond the horison again !!!

Published: 2005/9/28 9:54 • Updated: 2005/9/28 9:55

tzvook

Even though I'm from Germany (so English is not my first language) it was quite easy to read. So thank YOU therefore

All in all your work was an will be amazing. To bad my installation of XOOPS won't be able to be updated anymore *Gg*. It's my "own" CMS (because I made too many changes).

But as I still do quite a lot of other websites I'm happy to hear about your future plans

.

And if I got it right then I will love the new menu

Published: 2005/9/28 10:00 • Updated: 2005/9/28 10:00

MS-2001

Good news! Thanks for all of the hard work.

I have a question, though. I love the features in 2.2 and would not like to give them up. If, however, I were to start a new site today, and if the ultimate objective is to later upgrade to 2.3, would it be better to begin with 2.2.x or 2.0.13? I am asking because I read that 2.3 will be based upon 2.0.13.

Jere

Published: 2005/9/28 10:12 • Updated: 2005/9/28 10:12

jfmoore

Quote:

Hmmm, it's very interesting how non-php dev will help making XOOPS true multi lingual CMS.

You mean... you don't know?

There are tons of ways to help out. Testing, researching, looking how others (Xaraya perhaps) do it.
You don't need to be a skilled developer able to create the whole solution to investigate the problem and suggest an approach. Usually, I find it much easier to make something if someone else has described the process - in words, not necessarily in code.

Alternatively:Quote:

form a special working/testing group to ensure we get a real MB support

Now that's what I am talking about. Looking forward to ping-pong'ing with you in the development of this.

Published: 2005/9/28 11:14 • Updated: 2005/9/28 11:14

Mithrandir

I recognize I work of the Mith and Skalpa, but I cannot leave of speaking that other desenvolvedores of XOOPS exist diverse ai in this great world that we live.

I believe that an approach of the Xoops.org with the communities of support to XOOPS that it has development such as for example:
www.esxoops.com,
www.frxoops.org,
www.myxoops.de,
http://www.xoopsmalaysia.org, http://www.xoops-mexico.net, www.xoops.net.br,
would be very important only as example.

These are communities of XOOPS that they possess members, users, whom already they had developed modules and with certainty they can contribute very with the project, since that support of the Xoops.org exists Many is the good desenvolvedores of XOOPS as Landmark, Herve, frank, smd, solo,topet05,claudia etc.., etc...

I would like a bigger participation of these users sincerely and I would also include myself in this team that he desires to help.

He always wanted to help, in all the directions.

It is very good today for seeing that the team of XOOPS recognizes our work and waits to much more still make, but we depend on support and motivation for this.

Congratulations of any form for the information of the Skalpa and commentaries: -)

in portuguese

Eu reconhe?o o trabalho do Mith e Skalpa, mas n?o posso deixar de falar que existem diversos outros desenvolvedores de XOOPS ai neste grande mundo que vivemos.

Acredito que uma aproxima??o do Xoops.org com as comunidades de suporte ao XOOPS que tem desenvolvimento tais como: www.esxoops.com, www.frxoops.org, www.myxoops.de ,http://www.xoopsmalaysia.org,http://www.xoops-mexico.net, www.xoops.net.br, seria muito importante apenas como exemplo.

Estas s?o comunidades de XOOPS que possuem membros, usuários, que já desenvolveram módulos e com certeza podem contribuir muito com o projeto, desde que exista apoio do Xoops.org Muitos s?o os bons desenvolvedores de XOOPS como Marco, Herve, frank, smd, Solo, etc.., etc...

Eu gostaria sinceramente de uma maior participa??o destes usuários e eu me incluiria também nesta equipe que deseja ajudar.

Sempre quis ajudar, em todos os sentidos. ? muito bom hoje ver que a equipe do XOOPS reconhece o nosso trabalho e esperamos fazer muito mais ainda, mas dependemos de apoio e motiva??o para isto.

Parabéns de qualquer forma pelas informa??es do Skalpa e comentários.

Published: 2005/9/28 12:55 • Updated: 2005/9/28 12:55

giba

Firstly - Cool to hear that the project has leadership again.

Secondly - apologies for my ignorance as I am really new to XOOPS and you could set me straight. My understanding is that there is a core difference between 2.2 and earlier versions and hence many reasons why several of the new modules will not work on earlier versions due to a fundimental difference in architecture - re. users, URL's .(ie cbb1 vrs cbb2, xhelp .71 vrs xhelp .75) If this is not true - please disregard the following .

If you are taking an older version and making it a release 2.3 or 2.4, will the modules that are based on the 2.2 architecture be all wasted work when the newer releases come out, or will need substanncial modding to get up to date and current with the (old-new) architecture. Are all module makers aware of the pending architecture changes yet - or is that to happen soon.

As I mentioned I am new to this application, but it seemed slightly disconnected on the plans for the core and the module development areas.

Published: 2005/9/28 13:04 • Updated: 2005/9/28 13:04

charkra

Hallo Mithrandir and Skalpa!

We have been waiting for a multisite module for months. We wanna launch about 70 websites based on one installation of Xoops. The current module by Mitrandir does not work.

It is a bit disappointing to see that the multiwebsite integration is not in the priority list of 2.5/2.6!

Even if there was one funtioning one, we would be pleased to use the older version of XOOPS and get the non-profit organisation working online with Xoops, rather than sadly waiting for the prey!

Published: 2005/9/28 15:33 • Updated: 2005/9/28 15:33

draj

Quote:

We have been waiting for a multisite module for months. We wanna launch about 70 websites based on one installation of Xoops. The current module by Mitrandir does not work.

Hey all this is great news but we need one simple small no frill core that works.

The worst thing about all PHP CMS projects is that they are so complex, I have built 5 XOOPS sites now and teaching people to use them is an epic.

The basic install of XOOPS needs to be easy to understand and uncomplicated, then you just clip in the modules you need to lift the game. Most people (thats the users) just hemmorage when they see the backend of any part of xoops.

So i feel the main issues are the simple ones, bug free, logical, standards complient CSS HTML, lose the header referer problem with firewalls so anyone can join the site or login.

The sites i have built nearly work so well but are just that little bit complex for the users to handle, ALSO it's a proven fact that a XOOPs website is only as good as the people contributing to it, so we need to make it real easy for them to contribute instead of making them jump through hoops.

I love XOOPS and think it is the best CMS by far and it is only getting better, thanks to all who contribute.
Gecko

Published: 2005/9/28 20:51 • Updated: 2005/9/28 20:51

gecko

Giba: as Skalpa explains in his post, this will be a *really* open development, in which ALL local support sites will get a very important role! This is something that will bring the XOOPS communities closer together

Herko

Published: 2005/9/29 1:53 • Updated: 2005/9/29 1:53

Herko

The french version is now available at XOOPS-France here.

Published: 2005/9/29 2:01 • Updated: 2005/9/29 2:01

fooups

Quote:

It is a bit disappointing to see that the multiwebsite integration is not in the priority list of 2.5/2.6!

!!!
Quote:

Last, this necessary step will allow us to bring some highly requested features to the core in a next (2.5./2.6) version, like the possibility to manage several XOOPS sites from a single install, or real multi-language functionnalities.

Published: 2005/9/29 2:21 • Updated: 2005/9/29 2:21

Mithrandir

@DCrussader,
Can you please explain me what problems you have with backend ?

Published: 2005/9/29 2:54 • Updated: 2005/9/29 2:54

hervet

Quote:

Most people (that's the users) just hemmorage when they see the backend of any part of xoops.

I'm surprised you feel that way, because of all the cms/portals I've tried out I've found XOOPS to be the easiest and quickest for people to pick up and use. Particularly when it comes to customizing the site to feel like your site.

Published: 2005/9/29 4:32 • Updated: 2005/9/29 4:32

bluenova

I agree.
I've also tried several other CMSes and XOOPS was the only CMS, where I instantly understanded the administration. It is easy to understand.
Take a look at Mambo. There you have Mambots, Modules and Components and it's hard to understand where to administrate what.
Or Typo. I've wasted 3 days to understand how to add/delete/change something there.
So I think XOOPS is doing a great job in keeping it as simple as possible.

Published: 2005/9/29 5:53 • Updated: 2005/9/29 5:53

netsroht

@Hervet: Moved to PM

@Bluenova, netsroht: XOOPS is easy to install and use - that's right, main disapointments are few and most important to be a number one sollution for everythin.

- Hardway of developing modules for XOOPS, compared to the father of XOOPS - Nuke.
- Lack of ML, compared to the the others even and Nuke
- Lack of documentation (or not up to dated, explaining this new way of theming in XOOPS 2.2 and of course the old 2.0 - stable)
- Most of the XOOPS users here and all around this local support sites, doesnt know what for is /administration/system/templates and how it works - maybe if this was described detaily - XOOPS can beat Xaraya theming engine, maybe ...

Mambo/Joomla now have ugly administration interface, but documentation is one step beyond XOOPS, and it's very easy to create module, component for Mambo/Jambo , oops Joomla. Separating modules to components and modules is better, cos for one Module such as BrandyCooke module Blockies (only Goolge search is useable), everyone have to download module, not large but few modules like this one takes the space out. So in this way XOOPS Modules - Joomla Componets, and XOOPS Modules, Joomla - Modules (Blocks), Joomla wins, again cos of better documentation, Mambo have more flexibe themes, XOOPS have one piece in left, one in right and in the center module content.

RunCMS (aka XOOPS 1.2/1.3 have better block system)
Nuke have up to 6 blocks (with NSN CBlocks), Mambo cant be compared with this 3 - cos u may have no limitation to the blocks in one line.

XOOPS compared to all this have at least two features which I picked it before all others. Easy to understand administration (specialy in 2.0), easy of use by all level of Internet users and security, currenly maintain few sites some of them with Protector 2.52 and all of them are up and runing, expecting some disapointments from the hosting provider :)

In feature if XOOPS 2.x or 3.x have mixed up theme Engine (between Drupal, Mambo and Xaraya) will beet everyone CMS - commercial or free. ML managment like Xaraya. Detailed documentation and better PR team in XOOPS (short, angry answers are not welcomed and will not win more followers, developers etc.), no one borns with all knowledge needed to run, modify and build XOOPS and XOOPS Modules, so if u add a smile, and be nice with everyone on this support forums XOOPS will be the number one sollution for everythin :)

Published: 2005/9/29 11:24 • Updated: 2005/9/29 11:26

DCrussader

So if I understand you DC (It's a long post!) - if we had improved multilanguage, better documentation, and improved block control a little further.. you'd be happier?

I agree about Multilanguage - but that looks like it's coming eventually (2.5 I think?) into the core...

Documentation... agreed - we could do better here... and perhaps it would stop some questions being asked over and over and over again...

Blocks? Well perhaps it is something that can be improved... but I think this is also coming in later core updates as well....

Published: 2005/9/29 11:50 • Updated: 2005/9/29 11:50

davidl2

Quote:

ML managment like Xaraya

What is/are the major advantages of XarML over XOOPS or other CMS?
The coding to developers? The functionality to webmasters? The convenience to end users?
And, is the ML refered to ML contents or ML charset encoding, or both?
I am not an Xar expert but would like to focus some part if you would elaborate a little more.

Thanks

Published: 2005/9/29 13:08 • Updated: 2005/9/29 13:08

phppp

@phpbb: What means an Xaraya Expert, is there a XOOPS expert exept this dev. team ...

Mainly Xaraya ML gives advantages to the webmasters:

- as I can see from the 5 months testing it, Xaraya doesnt have option in the news for example, which language have to be Shown, and in the same time, dont work as Marcan SL. Simply when the articles in written in BG-UTF-8 it shows only when Bulgarian is selected Xaraya ML works better and in the same time like NukeML (only for the news).
- Xaraya ML is an easier to the users (probably and developers), cos everyone piece of Xaraya uses unicode, that means two points:
1. Point one, Japanese are able to write on an English oriented sites.
2. Point number two, (let's found the right words) - on some modules here in XOOPS, when languages missing, strange kind of names comes out - MD_ADM_SOMETHING, in Xaraya if language not have translation to Bulgarian for example, it displays the default site language.

XarML and XOOPS SL languages tree, looks almost similar, like core language file in XOOPS /language/english.php and in xaraya /var/locale/english/php ./xml exept charsets.

Nuke, PostNuke, MD-Pro, Envolution, Ciamos, and the ugly e107 pretends to be true multi language content managment, but the situation is:

e107 - Looks like first alfa of Marc Andre Smart Language, only switching UI
Ciamos - Have it, but no one kwows what and how works, so leave it
Nuke, PostNuke, MD-Pro and Envolution LFS 1.2.5 (currently dead project) - have ML only for one thing Interface (building tons of blocks for each language) and for the second news, that's not Multi Language site.

XarML works for every point of it, even and themes.

Drupal tries to make ML like XarML, unfortunately, this mess with GNU Gettext is a very bad idea for CMS, Drupal is loosing of time for me, so cant give u a detailed explanation how this ML is re exported in Drupal.

Now what I can done to help dev. team to make ML the same like this one in Xaraya, of course saving backward compatibilities with all modules (themes are not important, all published here are the same, left sided, right sided or like this site).

Xaraya is an easy example to understand what means eXtensible, but no one ask me for that....

But in the same time, Xaraya is a pig, XOOPS is a rocket.

So if I can help with something, feel free to contact me.

Published: 2005/9/29 23:54 • Updated: 2005/9/29 23:54

DCrussader

@DCrussader,
First of all, thanks for sharing your experiences in Xar.

1 when I said I am not an Xar expert, means I don't think I am knowing Xar well enough to answer the questions (comprasion with Xoops) I asked above, although I have interest and experiences in multilanguage hanlding, and would like to study how other CMS handle multilanguage issue, so that we can improve Xoops, as always.

My opinion:
Compared with other CMS concerning ML, the major (and the ONLY to me) aspect to be improved is how to avoid annoying "_XOOPS_UNDFINED_LANGUAGE_TERM" to end users (it is good to developers/translators tho). Solutions could be gettext, XarML-like, or "Xoops solution".
Another aspect to be improved, multilingual content management has been experimented in Xoops, which I do not see the functionality in other CMS, altough it is still a very hack-like solution.

BTW:
1 I don't think "unicode" in Xar is an option more advanced than Xoops.
2 Xar does not have better extensibility than XOOPS in ML, altough Xar is PERHAPS more extensible than XOOPS in other areas.

Again, thanks for the discussion.
Wish we would continue our technical discussion somewhere in forum.

Published: 2005/9/30 7:39 • Updated: 2005/9/30 7:39

phppp

It's funny... as i was going through the forums this morning i was thinking, "now this is what sets XOOPS apart from the rest... a community". And it's true. it's the one reason I stick around. People are always saying mambo this and mambo that, It's not a pad program but it is what it is. there is no team of users no forum no COMMUNITY!!! I look forward to the ride to XOOPSv4!!!

Published: 2005/10/1 17:11 • Updated: 2005/10/1 17:11

tdickson

Quote:

Most people (that's the users) just hemmorage when they see the backend of any part of xoops.

@Bluenova - thats not how i feel but what i have observed happens to the type of people who want to run these cms type sites.
I completeley agree with you that XOOPS is so far the easiest to understand. I started with Nuke then mambo gave up and found Xoops, 5 sites later and they are all still rnning well.
I think my observation is that the people who want to run a CMS appear to be very un technical they are more focussed on the content than the code so they can't get their head around the way everything in a php cms site wants to catagorised them permissioned then displayed. Sort of like people who just think cars run on petrol until the motor blows up with lack of oil.

Gecko

Published: 2005/10/3 18:22 • Updated: 2005/10/3 18:22

gecko

Quote:

Last, this necessary step will allow us to bring some highly requested features to the core in a next (2.5./2.6) version, like the possibility to manage several XOOPS sites from a single install, or real multi-language functionnalities.

...I love you!

Quote:

but more importantly one strictly standards-based XHTML theme for real browsers like Safari, Mozilla or Opera: and stricly means strictly here... if it was bad to misuse html tables some years ago, it's not better to misuse CSS or put

Brilliant idea - having a good 'base' theme to work from will be a huge help for css numpties like me to develop compliant themes.

Published: 2005/10/4 10:00 • Updated: 2005/10/4 10:00

MadFish

Thank you for all your time and effort. XOOPs is awesomee thanks to you and your team.

Published: 2005/10/4 16:09 • Updated: 2005/10/4 16:09

monique

I love XOOPS community. You guys always are here for us!

Difficulties are part of our journey. It makes us better and stronger.

XOOPS is the best CMS available and after this difficult period of adjustment it will become unbeatable.

You go xoops!

Published: 2005/10/6 21:36 • Updated: 2005/10/6 21:36

Calipsy

I'm really needing the downgrade script from 2.2.3 to 2.0.13.1.

Are there any forecasts to the release date?

Published: 2005/10/8 9:20 • Updated: 2005/10/8 9:20

wonder

Wonder,

Core Team members have already addressed your question in the "MYSQL problem - How to return to the old version?" thread. Continuing to ask about it will not make things go any faster. I'm sure there will be a formal announcement made when the script is available. Please be patient.

Best Regards,

James

Published: 2005/10/8 9:32 • Updated: 2005/10/8 9:32

JMorris

I'm sorry about that... but I am affraid I don't notice it.

I'll try to be patient...

Published: 2005/10/8 9:48 • Updated: 2005/10/8 9:48

wonder

@wonder: in the same time when the 2.2.3 comes untested as latest stable, in this time when more than local support sites blacklist it, I was put a simpleway to downgrade from 2.2.3 to 2.2.2, which is more stable than 2.2.3.... but from 2.2.3 to 2.0 it will take more time to create such script, so I recommend u to upgrade from 2.2.3 RC (forver) to 2.2.3Snapshot-1 which is more stable from 2.2.2 and/or 2.2.3RC.

Published: 2005/10/10 5:20 • Updated: 2005/10/10 5:20

DCrussader

I'm very happy to see this new strategy! The past couple of months I was in doubt about XOOPS and was looking at Joomla as an alternative. Those plans went straight to the bin after reading your explanation and plans for XOOPS development. My convidence is completely restored and I'll stick to my stable XOOPS install until 2.2 is where we all want it to be.
As a simple enduser I can only add: good luck to the development team and keep up the new spirit!

Published: 2005/10/10 6:19 • Updated: 2005/10/10 6:20

powadha

Currently I'm with MYSQL of 2.2.3 and files of 2.0.13, if I upgrade files to 2.2 and downgrade Mysql to 2.2 too, it should be stable?

Published: 2005/10/10 12:50 • Updated: 2005/10/10 12:50

wonder

I'm trying not to be impatient (really I am), but could one of the core devs please update us when we might see 2.2 released? It's been more than 6 weeks since 2.2 was changed to RC1. Is an RC2 coming out soon?

Did I mention that I was trying to be patient ?

Published: 2005/10/10 15:54 • Updated: 2005/10/10 15:54

dheltzel

V2.2.3 rc2 is undergoing testing at the moment prior to full disclosure and a public release.

http://www.xoops.org/modules/newbb/vi ... p?topic_id=42336&forum=40

Published: 2005/10/10 16:07 • Updated: 2005/10/10 16:07

Lance_

I have seen joomla and I must say that beautiful one has one graphical truly much. Much professional and much fresh one. When XOOPS it will have one graphical to the height of joomla?

Published: 2005/10/13 15:37 • Updated: 2005/10/13 15:37

OTTAGON

Sounds great!!!

Published: 2005/10/14 8:54 • Updated: 2005/10/14 8:54

vanGoGa

I have one consideration. The versions 2.2.x of XOOPS would go removed from the downloads because don't be stable versions. The 2.0.13.1 is the only stable. I have installed the versions 2.2.x and of it is not worked not even one. Page not working or white, modules and other serious ones bugs. Many have had and have these problems. To leave the possibility of download of these versions that are not really stable only means to expose the members to enormous risks for their job. They said to wait for one version really stable and tested 2.2.x to add in the section download. Ciao!

Published: 2005/10/14 14:31 • Updated: 2005/10/14 14:31

OTTAGON

RC isn't clear enough?

Herko

Published: 2005/10/15 2:33 • Updated: 2005/10/15 2:33

Herko

Maybe a definition of release candidate? W00ps definition is included on the download page:

"This is an RC = Release Candidate and some bugs have already been reported.
Do not use on a production site"

Not good enough?

Published: 2005/10/15 7:27 • Updated: 2005/10/15 7:27

jdseymour

What I believe OTTAGON is referring to is not so much 2.2.3+ as 2.2.2. Both on this site, and the Sourceforge repository 2.2.2 is listed as "Stable". Sorry, but I used 2.2.2, it's not 100% stable. There are bugs in 2.2.2 as well as extensive module compatibility issues. The latter is only an issue because so many newcomers do not see that modules are not the Core Devs responsibility. If a module doesn't work, they are quick to blame the Core Devs, which is unfortunate.

Perhaps it would help if we renamed 2.2.2 on this site to reflect that it is not the most stable version (which is 2.0.13.1), as well as move it out of the Stable section on the Sourceforge site.

Just my 2 cents.

James

Published: 2005/10/15 10:37 • Updated: 2005/10/15 10:37

JMorris

They are not of agreement. I have installed the version 2.2.2 and introduce problems of installation and visibility also without to install modules. Therefore probably she is Core to having problems. In the forum many customers have problems with Core and not with the modules. I repeat, today only version 2.0.13.1 is stable. He is not emphasized clearly that version 2.2.2 can give problems, at least in the section downloads. I only say this in order to avoid to the customers to pass days to get angry because the installation gone badly. Ciao!

Published: 2005/10/16 8:37 • Updated: 2005/10/16 8:39

OTTAGON

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