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#1 Posted on: 2007/10/7 20:29 Improving XOOPS governance
We have a problem

There's a lot of fighting on xoops.org, and its ugly. There's a lot of reasons and history, but to me the underlying problem is this:

There is no way for community members to have a say in how the project is run, or where its going.

Or to take it back another step:

There are no rules governing how the XOOPS project is run.

A brief history of the XOOPS wars

To summarise, for the past few years, many people tried to make contributions to the XOOPS project, of code and other things. But there was no mechanism for their work to be reviewed or adopted, because the small number of people at the top were too focussed on 'going it alone'. This made would-be contributors frustrated and angry that their work was wasted, and it meant that the progress of XOOPS was slow, because valuable contributions were being missed. Calls for change went unanswered, again because there was simply no mechanisms in place to deal with them. That lead to conflicts and arguments between different camps about what should be done, who was to blame. These arguments got out of control, when again there should have been rules to contain them...and here we are today.

Governance - start of a solution

The XOOPS project desperately needs a system of governance to be put in place that will encourage and capture contributions by the community, and help the project to grow in a united way. The Ubuntu project provides a great example of this:

* Ubuntu governance model

* Ubuntu Code of Conduct

* Ubuntu Leadership Code of Conduct

If I may extract the first part of the Ubuntu Governance model here:

Quote:
Ubuntu has a structure of community governance that aims to:

1. ensure that a process is defined that allows people to contribute to decisions regarding the Ubuntu community and distribution,

2. ensure that decisions regarding the Ubuntu distribution and community are taken in a fair and transparent fashion,

3. ensure that necessary decisions are actually taken, even when there is no clear consensus amongst the community.


Call for a debate on XOOPS Governance

I would like to call for an open and flame-free debate to be held on establishing an open system of governance for XOOPS, involving the wider community, the project leader, project council and leaders of various teams. I suggest that the actual debate should be held in a separate, dedicated thread.

So what do YOU think? Please post your views/comments here. If there seems to be enough support among the community to make it worthwhile, I will approach the management about making this an officially sanctioned activity / getting their involvement in the process.

Please keep this thread 100% flame-free, thanks.

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MadFish
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#2 Posted on: 2007/10/7 20:48 Re: Improving XOOPS governance
Seconded.

Crip

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Never let a man who does not believe something can be done, talk to a man that is doing it.
sailjapan
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#3 Posted on: 2007/10/7 20:50 Re: Improving XOOPS governance
Humm...


Take a seat !


Get a title !


It takes little effort to watch a man carry a load.

Chinese proverb


[-|-]

Use the sf.net forums and the wiki to contribute !
For extra fun, try to get hands over the Foundation
As simple as that.



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I like people more than machines or money. But that's me!
Lets do something good and great: Lets do open source!
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#4 Posted on: 2007/10/7 21:50 Re: Improving XOOPS governance
As much as I'd like to kiss and makeup with DJ, I'm afraid I'm not his type and my wife might get jealous. However, I am willing to make amends for the better of the project as a whole.

In all seriousness, it needs to be understood that I'm not against DJ. I am FOR community empowerment.

I think a mature, well mannered discussion about how to move forward is in order. I will spend some time and respond more fully tomorrow.

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Insanity can be defined as "doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results."

Stupidity is not a crime. Therefore, you are free to go.
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#5 Posted on: 2007/10/8 1:00 Re: Improving XOOPS governance
Thanks. I well appreciate that a lot of members don't get on terribly well, and many don't see eye to eye. But we all need and want the project to move forward.

Everyone will have to put aside their personal differences, as difficult as that may be, if the project is to thrive. And there will never be a better time to start doing that than today.

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http://www.xoops.org
MadFish
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#6 Posted on: 2007/10/8 23:07 Re: Improving XOOPS governance
*bump* - any more views?

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http://www.xoops.org
MadFish
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#7 Posted on: 2007/10/9 3:46 Re: Improving XOOPS governance
Very good points. I would add this:
Quote:
The Community Council meets every two weeks on IRC, you can propose an item for discussion at a Council meeting by placing it on the Community Council Agenda page on the Ubuntu Wiki.


In this project, since June, there were changes but no advances; today only two Official Teams are working: Dev Core y Design (but this really do not work as a Team).
Month over month are announced changes about docs, repository, modules etcc, but nothing happened.

Foundation, Council, Official Teams....and the Community Teams rejected...

In my opinion, the question is not "Improving XOOPS governance"; it is: "establishment of XOOPS governance".
The notices published today show that really this project can not moving forward by this way.

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debianus
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#8 Posted on: 2007/10/9 3:46 Re: Improving XOOPS governance
Like keep asking for add polls, so we can at least see and verify what people really want....
Then when people have voted and don't argue, it will all be clear, rather then one person needing to take charge and none of us getting anywhere....

Personally on Sourceforge have a much faster streamlined 2.2.5z for a year now and without cooperation...it just needs cooperation to release it and with all the arguing don’t really get the time…

We should be building bridges and not walls; it takes the same amount of bricks to build both....
We should be codeing and not arguing; it takes the same amount of words to make both...

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Oneness - True Faith
wizanda
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#9 Posted on: 2007/10/9 6:58 Re: Improving XOOPS governance
Quote:

MadFish wrote:
We have a problem

There's a lot of fighting on xoops.org, and its ugly. There's a lot of reasons and history, but to me the underlying problem is this:

There is no way for community members to have a say in how the project is run, or where its going.

Or to take it back another step:

There are no rules governing how the XOOPS project is run.

A brief history of the XOOPS wars

To summarise, for the past few years, many people tried to make contributions to the XOOPS project, of code and other things. But there was no mechanism for their work to be reviewed or adopted, because the small number of people at the top were too focussed on 'going it alone'. This made would-be contributors frustrated and angry that their work was wasted, and it meant that the progress of XOOPS was slow, because valuable contributions were being missed. Calls for change went unanswered, again because there was simply no mechanisms in place to deal with them. That lead to conflicts and arguments between different camps about what should be done, who was to blame. These arguments got out of control, when again there should have been rules to contain them...and here we are today.

Governance - start of a solution

The XOOPS project desperately needs a system of governance to be put in place that will encourage and capture contributions by the community, and help the project to grow in a united way. The Ubuntu project provides a great example of this:

* Ubuntu governance model

* Ubuntu Code of Conduct

* Ubuntu Leadership Code of Conduct

If I may extract the first part of the Ubuntu Governance model here:

Quote:
Ubuntu has a structure of community governance that aims to:

1. ensure that a process is defined that allows people to contribute to decisions regarding the Ubuntu community and distribution,

2. ensure that decisions regarding the Ubuntu distribution and community are taken in a fair and transparent fashion,

3. ensure that necessary decisions are actually taken, even when there is no clear consensus amongst the community.


Call for a debate on XOOPS Governance

I would like to call for an open and flame-free debate to be held on establishing an open system of governance for XOOPS, involving the wider community, the project leader, project council and leaders of various teams. I suggest that the actual debate should be held in a separate, dedicated thread.

So what do YOU think? Please post your views/comments here. If there seems to be enough support among the community to make it worthwhile, I will approach the management about making this an officially sanctioned activity / getting their involvement in the process.

Please keep this thread 100% flame-free, thanks.


I love the concept of Ubuntu and it works very well. The one advantage they have is this:

Quoted from - http://www.ubuntu.com/community/processes/governance

Quote:
SABDFL
This is not a democracy, it's a meritocracy. We try to operate more on consensus than on votes, seeking agreement from the people who will have to do the work. Mark Shuttleworth, as SABDFL, plays a happily undemocratic role as sponsor of the project. He has the ability, with regard to Canonical employees, to ask people to work on specific projects, specific feature goals, and specific bugs.

He also has a casting vote on the Technical Board and Community Council, should it come to a vote. This capacity is not used lightly. The community functions best when it can reach broad consensus about a way forward. However, it is not uncommon in the open source world for there to be multiple good arguments, no clear consensus, and for arguments to divide communities rather than enrich them. The argument absorbs the energy that might otherwise have gone towards the creation of a solution. In many cases, there is no one "right" answer, and what is needed is a decision more than a debate. The SABDFL should act to provide clear leadership on difficult issues, and set the pace for the project.

It is understood that the divisive use of the SABDFL's authority could weaken the project. For that reason the authority is used carefully, in the hope that it will create momentum in the best direction for the project, breaking stalemates where otherwise competing views would fail to reach consensus.


Who would play this role in the XOOPS realm. I do not see how one person can be Core-Developer, Server Administrator, DNS Admin and the tie-breaking vote. If I had all of those roles I could think of many ways to supplement my income rather handsomely.

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"Why can't we have a car powered on a mixture of patchouli oil, ignorance, and double standards? There seems to be an inexhaustible supply of that sh1t." - LR
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#10 Posted on: 2007/10/9 8:43 Re: Improving XOOPS governance
MadFish - I admire your tenacity!

This is a topic that has been tossed around and tossed out many times, yet we seem to lack any clear answer and commitment to the future of XOOPS.

We have yet to see any stabilization in the project or the community, despite all the huffing and puffing. This needs to the be #1 focus of all people wishing to see this project succeed.

Ownership and possession are not always linked and I do not want this to devolve into a "It's mine! No, it's not, it's mine!" debate, which has been the prevalent behavior. This kind of behavior and debate is completely unproductive.

What does XOOPS need?
1. An active developer group with clear code standards, a prioritized task list, and a code review, testing and release process
2. A supportive community that has mechanisms to provide proper feedback to the developers about the performance, function and features of the XOOPS platform
3. An active organization that obtains, manages and maintains the physical and intangible assets of XOOPS (trademarks, domains, hosting and marketing position)
4. A written manifest containing the roles and responsibilities of the various stakeholders (developers, community and foundation), along with reconciliation and conflict resolution processes

Finally, I think everyone needs a timeout - go to your room and think about what you've done! And, don't come out until you are ready to apologize.

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