"It all translates to code. If we have good and well documented code, developers, modules and happy users will come."

This is a sequence of events:
Good and well documented code brings developers.
Developers bring modules.
Modules bring happy users.

The problem, in my opinion, is that XOOPS core does no longer satisfy developers and the all structure is collapsing.
In my opinion, an expert php developer will not work in a project antiquate as XOOPS. If you look into sourceforge forums you will notice that we did had brain power at that time! But meanwhile the web evolved very fast while XOOPS did not. Other projects with better solutions arrived..
Now, as the current XOOPS developers meet other advanced projects, other advanced Frameworks, they have 2 options:
Staying on the farm or leaving to the city.
I love all this green but I prefer an iPhone with a green screensaver and a farmville application.

We see this big sites hosting data, our sites cannot beat them.
Our sites need their web services to host videos, high definition images, games...
In the same line of thought, Xoops can't beat this big Frameworks/libraries that grew meanwhile. We need to use them, use their knowledge, use what they can do better then us. We use Smarty because we cannot build a better template engine, right? Why should we waste time in improving our database persistence handlers? We cannot waste time in building our own ORM or MVC aproach. We need to take advantage of what is already done, out there, in the city of pretty girls and double rainbows.

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Regarding article and tags, I will take your challenge.

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OK, I have a challenge for you then - you're a user, and you use the modules, right? So why don't you write a tutorial for the modules you're using?

Once your happy upload it to the repository, post a news story about it and let's see how many people thank you. A LOT, and I would be one of them.

I think, we all agree that having a good tutorial will help new users to learn how to use it better and take advantage of all its features.

Since you don't need a technical know-how to write a user tutorials, just your personal experience from using it, then what's holding you back from doing it?

So, are you up to the challenge?

The best motivation for people to develop things is to feel being appreciated. And there is nothing better than telling a module developer:

This is great what you're doing:

- I'll help you with the documentation for this module
- I'll help you with testing
- I'll help you with designing some coo templates
- I'll help you with designing some cool icons/images

Telling the developer, who in his spare time, instead of drinking beer with his buddies or playing with his family, develops a module for the community, that he should do this and this and this, while we're standing on the sidelines, is not fair, at least in my view.

We all want XOOPS to get better, and there are many people here to work very hard at that. We can all help them, or we can continue complaining, while standing on the sidelines, and forgetting that this is Open Source project

Mamba you are right, the entire community should attempt to play some part developers and end users, I completely agree but you have to remember that there is also alot of end users who just simply want soemthing they can use without getting involved to much with it, if it doesnt work on the first attempt they will use something else.

I will take your challenge of helping out with documentation, etc. On the site I am currently working on i have made some modifications to templates and some samll php modifications i will post these, maybe they will be of use.

I am currently studying towards a BSc in information technology at university so I have no problem getting involved in the project a bit more (perhaps in the near future I wil have enough knowledge to develop my own modules) perhaps it will help mne learn more about app development in the long run.

you are correct about feeling appreciated of course it helps but for developers to get more appreciation they need to start making more general and cool modules, for me I just cant get excited about amodule that helps you to connect to some API for some reason, I cant use that and neither can the majority of users but give me a new gallery module with some kick ass features or modules like a mentioned above (gd star rating, contact form with customised to address, etc) or other modules that do cool things and can make my website look great and proffesional then I can get excited and help with testing and documentation, etc.

I believe xoops was created with the premise of ease of use for normal users, users who dont know php or mysql or even html and css, xoops is not solely for tech heads, xoops should always be about normal users once some awesome modules get developed, released and actually updated then more normal users will come and more will get involved in the community and the project, that is what i believe.

And trabis, thankyou very much for taking up the challenge, as soon as you have something ready please let us know and I (and i am sure many others) will be happy to help with testing, feedback and documentation.

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We do already have that and it works perfectly in Xoops 2.3 and earlier.

If it fails in 2.4, it is not because the module doesn't work with the latest version of Xoops, it is because the latest version of Xoops doesn't work with the module.

Hi Peekay, I have tried that module and can confirm that I cannot get the email to send to the departments address, why it does not work I do not know, I am only interested in the fact that it does not work as it should.

It does seem a good module, but ultimatley something like xforms/liase with customisable elements and the different email address field is needed(kick ass functionality) like contact form 7 for wordpress.

Apologies for being negative playsome. I'm struggling to get some old modules to work myself at the moment under the 'Blue Move' initiative and have hit a bit of a wall with Xoops 2.4. I can quite believe that it doesn't work.

If I can see an obvious problem with the code I'll post back here. Unless someone turns up with an Uber-contact module in the meantime

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You're sounding like a broken record Mamba

Any time someone complains, you bring up the same thing. What can you do for Xoops

Well at the moment, I'm not willing to do anything.

I volunteered two months ago to work on the repository and was told thanks, but it's being done

And until you guys get your sh!t together, why should ANYONE help????

You refuse to listen to end users and forget that Xoops is all about the END USER!

@peekay, no problem. i will test he contact module again incase I have done something wrong. To be honest though I know people have been screeming out for this feature and I dont know why a developer cant spend a few minutes modifying xforms to have that feature, and judging by some of the talent there is on xoops thats all it would probably take, a few minutes. Some of these devs know xoops and PHP better than I know the english language and I can only speak english.

@chefry, your totally right, xoops is about end users. Who makes sites with it and uses it the most? end users, the satisfaction of end users should always be priority number one, not what fancy smancy code and api's and libraries can be squeezed into the core and modules but what end users ultimatley need and want.

The peeps in charge of xoops need to look at it like a business, the customer is king, if you cant give the customer what they want you wont be in business very long.

And mamba, you cant expect every end user to give something back to the community, normal end users just want a product that works and works well, you cant expect people to start developing modules or volunteering in some other manner because they are complaining that something is broke or they cannot find an appropriate module for thier needs, most will just walk away and use something else.

I will volunteer my time because trabis has stated he will work on the article and tag modules, volunteering is a two way street, if the community volunteer to help out then devs must volunteer to develop what the community wants.

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I'll be very honest - I don't appreciate this attitude, because it comes across as "sense of entitlement", and that's not fair to the developers, who spent countless hours of their free time on developing something, and in return will be trashed if something is not up to the expectations of the "end-user".

I suggest to read this very good post Dear User of My Open Source Project which hopefully will provide you a different perspective from a developer point of view.

It's really a two-way street...

The best example of what happens if you are focusing on "take, take, take and not give" is probably deforestation :

"The removal of trees without sufficient reforestation has resulted in damage to habitat, biodiversity loss and aridity. [..] Deforested regions typically incur significant adverse soil erosion and frequently degrade into wasteland."

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Maybe this is the whole misunderstanding - we're not in "business" because we are NOT getting paid! Unless I missed something

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Thank you for your volunteering!!! That's exactly the spirit we're looking here for!!!

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Developers dont get trashed that I know of. Of course people may get annoyed if something does not include some functionality but mostly they get annoyed if something does not work the way it should, they really want to use xoops but they cant get a particular module to work so of course they will get annoyed.

To some degree there is entitlement, not like if you bought a product and payed lots of money but if you choose to use a particular product then you should be entitled for it to work in a particular way without having to learn php to try and fix it themselves.

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I know you dont get paid and you are not in business to make money but let me ask you this, when the original developer of xoops created this platform what was his goal do you think? was it to make a great core and leave it at that, if no one uses it or makes modules or it isnt popular then who cares?

Or was the goal to make xoops into an extremely powerfull, popular open source platform with thousands of users with amazing modules and functionality and to become the top cms?

There is 2 things that i can see will make a popular application.

1. great developers who will make great apps that the majority of people can use.

2. users who use and love these apps and become loyal to them.

I think xoops has became less popular because of a lack of killer apps(modules). So yes xoops should be operated more like a business with the focus being on end user satisfaction, if users are not satisfied with xoops as a whole they will not use it and xoops will never become the great cms it should be.

I am passionate about xoops which is the reason i am making these posts, no i cannot develop modules, i cannot donate thousands of dollars but i have already agreed to do my bit if the developers do their bit.

6 years ago xoops had great modules, tons of them, more than joomla or drupal or other cms systems, infact if you search my old account mjtkop im sure i made that same statement years ago when i was praising xoops, I just hate to see it turn into some 2bit cms with lack of support, lack of mdoules that alot of people wont use.

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Its not all take and no give, every single user who downloads xoops and its modules and makes a live website with them is giving something back to xoops, they are promoting xoops and its modules and waht it can do, every single user regardless of his/her ability with php, mysql, html, css who answers and helps another user on the forums is giving something back, every single user who makes a modification to a theme or a module and shares it with the community is giving something back, every single user who suggests some functionality or a way to improve a module or the xoops core is giving something back.

I really dont understand what you expect users to give, should was all learn php, mysql, smarty, html, csss so we can make themes and modules and help develop the core? should we all take technical writing classes so we can create in depth documentation? i dont understand what you want us to give, there will always be people who take take take and never give that is life, the majority of users on xoops.org DO give with what i described above.